POWER AND PIETY: An Interview with Cardinal Reginald Pole

We sit down with England's most controversial exile to talk about family, faith, and his dreams of return

RENAISSANCE WEEKLY: Your Eminence, you've been living in exile from England for over a decade now. How do you find life in Rome?

CARDINAL POLE: [adjusting his red zucchetto with obvious irritation]

Rome is... instructive. One learns much about the true nature of power here, about how men of supposed virtue conduct themselves when they believe no one is watching.

[pauses, staring out the window]

But it is not home. It will never be home. My heart remains with England, with my people who suffer under the yoke of heresy while I am forced to watch from afar.

RW: You came quite close to being elected Pope yourself recently. That must have been a tremendous disappointment.

POLE: [his jaw tightening visibly]

Two votes. I was two votes short of the chair of St. Peter. Two votes from being able to restore England to the true faith with the full authority of the Holy See behind me. Instead, we have Julius, who seems more interested in his... architectural projects... than in saving souls.

[laughs bitterly]

But perhaps it was God's will. Perhaps my destiny lies elsewhere.

RW: Your relationship with the late King Henry was famously tumultuous. Do you ever regret your opposition to him?

POLE: [eyes flashing dangerously]

Regret? Regret standing for truth against tyranny? That monster murdered my blessed mother, Lady Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, butchered like an animal in the Tower's courtyard. Multiple blows of the axe because the executioner was nervous! [voice rising] And why? Because I dared to tell him that his lusts did not supersede God's law!

RW: That's quite a strong condemnation of a king who was your own cousin...

POLE: [leaning forward intensely]

Cousin? Yes, we shared great-grandparents, but that is where any similarity ended. Henry was a glutton for power, for flesh, for gold. He destroyed the monasteries not for faith but for their wealth. He married and murdered at will. He turned England into a spiritual wasteland because he could not control his appetites.

[pauses, collecting himself]

I tried to warn him about that Boleyn woman. I tried to save his soul.

RW: Some say your own ambitions for the English throne motivated your opposition...

POLE: [straightening in his chair, voice becoming coldly formal]

I have never pursued earthly crowns. My calling is to serve God and restore His Church. If circumstances were to arise where England needed... guidance... from one who understands both the old faith and the complexities of statecraft, then yes, I would serve. But only in service to the Almighty.

RW: What of the current situation? Young King Edward seems firmly committed to the Protestant cause.

POLE: [a smile playing at his lips]

Edward is but a child, influenced by grasping men like Northumberland who use religion as a mask for their greed. Children grow... or they fall ill... God's will often reveals itself in unexpected ways. And should anything happen to the boy, his sister Mary would inherit. Mary, who remains faithful to the true Church despite all pressures. She would need wise counsellors, men who understand both England and Rome...

RW: You're currently working on some kind of mission regarding England. Can you elaborate?

POLE: [glancing around carefully, then speaking in lower tones]

I serve as Papal Legate for England, though I cannot yet claim that office openly. Pope Julius has entrusted me with... various endeavours... aimed at preparing for England's eventual return to Catholic unity. The details must remain confidential, but I will say this: I have agents, friends, resources. When the time comes, England will find that exile has not weakened my resolve - it has strengthened it.

RW: Any final thoughts for our readers about your hopes for the future?

POLE: [standing, his bearing becoming more regal]

Remember this: injustice may triumph for a season, but truth endures. Henry thought he had destroyed the Pole family, ended our influence forever. Yet here I sit, in cardinal's red, with the Pope's ear and coffers of gold to spend on righteous causes.

[voice growing passionate]

England will return to the true faith. Her people cry out for it even now. And when that day comes, those who remember their loyalty will be rewarded, while those who embraced heresy will find that justice, though delayed, is never denied.

Cardinal Pole spoke with us in his private study at his Roman palazzo, surrounded by theological texts and maps of England. Throughout our conversation, his intensity was palpable - a man clearly driven by a mixture of genuine religious conviction and deeply personal grievances against the Tudor dynasty.